Mike,

Appreciate the candor on the issue here. I'm really not sure what the ultimate answer is, but ultimately I think you're on the right path. I'm not even sure that Gay Marriage is the actual issue at hand, but personhood and human rights. Let me be clear: I'm not in favor of Gay Marriage any more than I'm in favor of Common Law Marriage or Domestic Partner benefits from a 'moral' standpoint. However, if people choose (and that is a WHOLE different debate) to form relationships that are outside of 'conventional' boundaries, and they have committed their lives to each other, no matter their orientation, they should have equal access to their loved one and the lives they've built together.

You're spot on. We, “The Church”, have largely marginalized groups of people with our lack of grace. We, of all people, the People of the Second Chance, should be the first in line to dispense copious amounts of grace.

Thanks for the post!

Hero

Yessss. Thank you for this.

Well said man. I'm with Los

Mike < — GRACE-filled Very well stated.

Have you read Andrew Marin's book “Love is an Orientation”? I think you'd like it… he – like you – talk about how we can elevate our conversations beyond the typical strife-filled debates.

Great post

Jesus didn't respond “tenderly” to sexual issues – he responded “tenderly” to a repentant heart. If you will notice, he dealt harshly with those who were unrepentant or who tried to trick him into answering according to their agenda, but responded with grace and mercy towards those who were repentant and willing to submit themselves to God.

Everything Jesus did and said revolved around the idea of grace and mercy towards the repentant and submitted and penetratingly criticism towards those who were not, REGARDLESS of the issue. Sex had nothing to do with it. Those who throw around harsh condemning words on both side of the issue would do well to heed the words of Jesus:

“Let he among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.”

Grace isn't enough, and it never was.

Tony, I'm not even sure that's what this is all about – I think it's all about power over others – both groups are trying to manipulate the government into regulating something that is none of the government's business so they can force the other group into doing things their way.

thanks jenny…and yes i know andrew and is a friend…really appreciate what he is doing…

You make a great point Ed. I hear where Mike is coming from but I don't think it's an issue of grace as much as love.

When we respond with love, we demonstrate Jesus. Jesus never condoned sin, but always demonstrated love whether with a reproof or with an encouragement in response. However his reproof was never to show how right he is and how wrong others were, it was ONLY because he loved them. I think many get caught up in self-righteousness and that's where it gets nasty. We can disagree with a person or position and still demonstrate the love of Jesus. Many get caught up in reacting in fear, rather than responding in love.

Let's not cheapen grace but let's live by the law of love.

Ed,

Good food for thought. Thanks!

ed, i think i personally would categorize his response to the woman caught in adultery as tender and kind…and none of this was based on her repenting in that moment…i appreciate your thoughts but just something to consider…

back at ya!

Being from the country that was the first to legalise gay marriage I've had a few discussions on the subject with American friends. I found that in the end it does not concern the concept or idea of marriage. The couples will live together and live a married life even if law prohibits a legal label. Nor does it involve the excuse that when the State accepts it the church cannot turn same sex couples away that wish to marry in church.

The main thing is the tax advantage for married people and inheritance issues, right to be with someone when they are in certain state when only family is allowed; legal privileges provided by law through marriage.

And to me, that makes complete sense, whatever my opinion and incomprehension on gay sexuality may be.

When confronting or considering any political issue, I've had to learn to reflect on my own personal motivations. Why do I feel this way about that issue?

Politics easily become a trap for some Christ followers. Sometimes we think we do good by standing up for our core beliefs as we understand them from the bible, God's commandments. We can believe that society should follow those beliefs in obedience to God, that it should be legislated and enforced punitively, even if it is against the will of public majority. Moral righteousness is righteous, whether you agree with it or not. And we think our intentions are good, and on the surface they may be. But I suspect something else may be going on much deeper within us.

As a Christ follower, I've chosen to follow a certain path for my life, to follow Christ and live more like Him as the Holy Spirit works within me and submit myself to His will and allow transformation in my soul. But no matter how far we go towards Christ, we will always have a bit of our sin nature left in us, itching at our thoughts and our hearts. It is this sin nature that drives our self-righteousness and our misguided political arguments and accusations.

We follow Christ and His will for us. But others may not. I suspect some part of us may be very jealous and lashes out in anger, that not everyone will submit like we have. That dead, sinful part of us wants to live according to our own flawed will. So we try to force morality on society, squeeze everyone into the box that the dead part of us feels like it is stuck in.

But that is NOT God's will. If it was, there would be absolute obedience and order in the world now. God would force it, since he has the ultimate power to do so.

He chose a different path for the world. He gave us choices. He wants us to choose Him, to submit willingly. He wants our hearts and our deep inner love. We must follow this example and encourage, instead of force with law, people toward the right decisions. Forcing a person to be moral, does not make them moral. It must come from within, willingly.

So, I've learned to stop and take notice of my motivations when confronting a political issue. Am I angry about something because it's not fair to me as Christ follower? Why can they do that, but I can't?

Or, is it that I truly love God and love his people and want the very best for them? Am I willing to put my jealousy aside for love, in the hopes that God's love will change more hearts than my laws?

I agree to a certain point, but I also remember the Jesus that confronted the woman at the well. He called her on the sinful life that she was living in. He didn't pull any punches, but laid it all out. I believe that Jesus was full of Grace, but I also see the Jesus in the Bible that confronted issues without worrying about offending anyone. I believe in Grace… I rely on Grace and I agree that most of the people that fought against it and other issues like this one are hateful… spiteful… and most don't show any love. But, that doesn't mean that I have to just stand and keep my mouth shut. Some how we have to find a way without compromising our own convictions.

When did it become unloving or lacking tenderness to give definition to various issues in our society including marriage? To make it clear that an action or motivation is sinful is perhaps one of the most loving thing that a person can do. To tell an individual something true about Biblical values hopefully causes them to see the beauty of Christ & the ugliness of their sin. However we do have a responsibility to love those who struggle with homosexuality by defining it as sinful behavior and encourage them to fight their sinful desires just as all Christians must fight their sinful desires.

He didn't rebuke the woman caught in adultery because her heart had already been changed. By your definition, Jesus mistreated the rich young ruler by not seeing his perspective on his view of wealth (idolatry). You're promoting the world's idea of tolerance, which is really approval. Jesus showed grace, not approval.

great thoughts on the lack of civility. none of us is blameless enough to cast stones, though many of us continuing doing just that. however, i disagree on your perspective on Jesus on the woman caught in adultery. his parting words to her were to 'go and sin no more'. in that situation, there seemed to be no question in his mind as to whether or not this was a sin.

There is fine line between judgment and supporting one's convictions. I would argue that Jesus, being God, KNEW what was in the woman's heart and her life. He perceived it intimately with his own sight. He knew her life. He was sinless and truly righteous and being God, had the right to judge her and confront her about her sin. And He did it with love.

You and I, we don't truly know another person's life, and their heart…unless they share it with us.

I would argue that we MUST tread lightly when calling out another person's sin. Especially, when we confront people who are not Christ followers and who do not share our values about sin and morality. You may perceive something as sin, but they do not. And they likely aren't willing to agree with you, just because you say they are sinning.

So what do we do? I tell my two young daughter this all the time: Show me, don't tell me.

We, as Christ followers, need to SHOW the world His values, lived out in our lives. Draw them in. Encourage them to question their own lives when they see the beauty of a life in Christ. SHOW them how to live their lives better. Prove the living word of the bible.

Otherwise, it's just words to them.

This past Sunday, our pastor was talking about the Woman of Folly and the Woman of Virtue in Proverbs. He made the case that the Church has effectively lost its voice in our culture because it's chosen to scream about what it hates, and what it won't stand for, rather than telling them what we love and showing them how we love. Something to think about…

mike i appreciate your comments… it is clear that most people are not listening to one another on this and many other issues.

i guess i never thought of listening as extending grace…. something to think about.

Well said.

You say “Black and white thinking is deadly in our relationships with each other.”

I don't think it is. We need to know what is right and what is wrong. But we also need to know that the right way to respond to anyone is with love and grace.

My belief that an action or attitude is wrong shouldn't cause me to think less of or act disrespectfully to someone who believes that action or attitude is right. And it shouldn't cause them treat me with disrespect or hate. But if it does, it's MY responsibility as a Christ follower to respond in a Christlike manner, regardless. Because I know Christ. I know how I am supposed to treat others, regardless of how they respond to me. I'm the one who's supposed to know love.

The way we disagree, the way we respond to others, the way we handle conflict of all kinds is a black and white issue in and of itself. We handle it wrong or we handle it right. It just happens to be the black and white issue we overlook most. Maybe because it's one of the hardest.

although i have family,and friends as well who are gay,make no mistake this clearly is an abomination to God,and although this may not be POLITICALLY correct,it is not man,or his idea's that are an issue,but the Lord of the teaching who will judge,and this judgement is clearly stated in scripture,what is needed here is repentence,not acceptance.

I totally agree with Scott.

Holiness has to come first…then grace. Jesus calls us to turn from our sin… problem is that there's so many people today that have been brain washed by tolerance. It's like a pot that slowly boils..the frog never knew he would be boiled to death..but he was. Seriously, I have many gay friends, and I don't hate them. But I also don't approve of their lifestyle. I don't even need to go into what God's word tells us over and over and over about this particular sin. See, the thing is, this isn't one of those 1 time sins..or a sin that comes and goes..this is a lifestyle. And, if we all just roll over and give up fighting against what God has told us is wrong, then what's next? Oh, I can think of many things that are right around the corner. Christians need to love EVERYONE but also make a stand for what is true, pure and Holy. I know it's not popular “these days” to be black and white on any issue but God's Word still is… and last time I checked He hasn't changed His mind. So I will follow Him. Remember: Jesus forgives but forgiveness can only happen if there is repentance. This is where the problem lies..

“The thing I find most amazing In amazing grace is the chance to give it out
Maybe that’s what love is all about” – I'm Not Who I Was by Brandon Heath

Without getting into a political brawl, I'd like to just share my thoughts as they have been stirring inside me since I read this post and I need to get them out!
>While yes, we do need to acknowledge homosexuality for what it is- sin, we also need to look at the planks in our own eyes before we condemn those who identify as homosexual.
I find it disheartening to know that people will support a heterosexual marriage in which (for example), the couple has engaged in premarital sex, before they support a homosexual marriage. Premarital sex is just as much a sin as practicing homosexuality (Romans 14:23), yet it receives much less attention (generally) because people are much more judgmental towards the GLBT community.

>We are called to love eachother. Period. We are not called to love only the ones who we think are following Jesus. We are called to love ALL people, regardless of sexual orientation because Jesus died for the sins of us ALL (1 John 2:2). Yes, even the gays and lesbians *gasp!!!* (sarcasm)

>In the end, God ALONE is the one who defines marriage. His word has shown us that he defines it as between a man and a woman. That is clear.
Gays and lesbians getting married is NOT redefining God's word. It is simply taking the actual word out of its intended context.
My personal stand is that whoever gets married can get married-gay, straight, whatever. But the only unions that will be sanctified in the eyes of God are the unions which follow his plan.

P.S. All of the above is an opinion only, feel free

“The thing I find most amazing In amazing grace is the chance to give it out
Maybe that’s what love is all about” – I'm Not Who I Was by Brandon Heath

Without getting into a political brawl, I'd like to just share my thoughts as they have been stirring inside me since I read this post and I need to get them out!
>While yes, we do need to acknowledge homosexuality for what it is- sin, we also need to look at the planks in our own eyes before we condemn those who identify as homosexual.
I find it disheartening to know that people will support a heterosexual marriage in which (for example), the couple has engaged in premarital sex, before they support a homosexual marriage. Premarital sex is just as much a sin as practicing homosexuality (Romans 14:23), yet it receives much less attention (generally) because people are much more judgmental towards the GLBT community.

>We are called to love eachother. Period. We are not called to love only the ones who we think are following Jesus. We are called to love ALL people, regardless of sexual orientation because Jesus died for the sins of us ALL (1 John 2:2). Yes, even the gays and lesbians *gasp!!!* (sarcasm)

>In the end, God ALONE is the one who defines marriage. His word has shown us that he defines it as between a man and a woman. That is clear.
Gays and lesbians getting married is NOT redefining God's word. It is simply taking the actual word out of its intended context.
My personal stand is that whoever gets married can get married-gay, straight, whatever. But the only unions that will be sanctified in the eyes of God are the unions which follow his plan.

I heard an interview last month that a Missouri pastor did with a friend of his who is a Muslim Background Believer from Gaza. They talked about a lot of things, but at one point, Tasir said something I will never forget. He said,

“If we are going to be peacemakers, we cannot choose sides.”

i totally agree martin…good word!

i guess my point on the interaction is that he didnt start with that statement…he started with loving her…defending her…addressing the hypocrisy of the religious leaders…then once he established that he was on her side, he gave her those parting words…i think the order of communication is relevant and the way he handled it was something to consider…the thing that i pay attention to in that exchange is that he showed compassion and civility with her in that moment…

“Holiness has to come first… then grace.”
So is it even possible for us to be holy without grace?

i agree…self reflection is a good place to start before engaging something like this…great thots….

One person commented, “I don't hate them. But I also don't approve of their lifestyle.”

The good ol' 'but'. It's such a little word that allows us to be judgmental without sounding well… judgmental. Unfortunately the Christian list of disapproval is long and clear, however, it is not their place to feel entitled to legislation according to their approval or disapproval. What about Christians who disapprove of Islam? Can they ask for legislation to prevent Islamic marriages and families? A person following Jesus can believe that homosexuality is a sin, and therefore not practice it themselves, but if a nation is going to go that route, then is it possible to legislate and limit the basic human rights of people who obviously have the sin of pride, superiority, obesity, laziness? And if you legislate America based on a Christian religious vote, then don't cry when other countries legislate according to their own religion, even if it means discrimination and intolerance of Christians.

And since someone brought up that woman at the well…
Stories in the Bible exist to reveal God. Not to reveal sin. Jesus HIMSELF talked to the woman at the well… he never sent anyone else to talk to her. He excited her heart towards repentance by illuminating a smidgen of truth. If we are to follow His example in this particular story, then let's look for smidgens of truth, living in a way not that invites others to us, but in a way that causes others to invite us into them.

i totally believe that Christians should take a stand for something…unfortunately when we stand for something we are often standing on someones throat in the process…and then we are surprised why they cant see our POV just sayin…

I tend to disagree, Sam. If everything is black and white, why did Paul go to such lengths to tell the churches to quit bickering over theological issues? Why did he enumerate that one man's conscience allows him to eat meat or drink wine, while another's does not, and neither is wrong?

Furthermore, to say there is only a right way and a wrong way to react or respond to someone is simply a fallacy. In an argument with a loved one, I may have my heart set on the right thing, that is, loving them and doing the best by them, and yet say something that only makes things worse. I had the right intentions but said the wrong thing. Or suppose the opposite happened, and I said the right thing but with selfish intention? How can that be examined in terms of absolute right and wrong?

Jesus modeled a way of living based on grace and love – recognizing the differences in each of our lives and seeking to value what is most important: our hearts and our relationships to each other. To the “sinners” and those who did all the “wrong” things, he showed compassion and value, encouraging them to live as if they were worth something. To the Pharisees, he showed respect for their knowledge of the Law but scorn for their misuse of it. In either case, what was important was that the judgement and hatred of self and others be ceased and the worth of self and others realized.

Black and white thinking reduces things to the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions. It makes it easy, as Mike pointed out, to divide us into “us” and “them.” To truly give love and grace to someone, we must be empathetic.

That said, I absolutely agree that in the end it comes down to our relationship with Christ and our commitment to loving others as He does.

I don't think Mike is trying to advocate leaving things be or being relativistic. What he's saying is if there's to be any progress, you have to understand in your heart where another person's heart is. Jesus fully perceived the young ruler's perspective on wealth – he saw that he was dependent on it, attached to it. Jesus spoke to him so that the ruler's suspicions would be confirmed – that it was his very wealth that kept him from being truly alive. In that moment he illustrated to the ruler what He said before “where your treasure is, there your heart will be.” This opened up the chance for the ruler to decide where his heart really was, to feel the heartache of being pulled in two directions. He didn't walk away offended or angry, he walked away sad. Troubled. Conflicted.

So, Jesus helped a man who was addicted to his wealth see how destructive focusing on himself and his wealth was. He helped a woman who knew she had done something terrible see that it did not make her an evil, despicable woman, and see that she had a chance to change her heart. Both cases were Christ giving someone a chance to grow towards love of themselves and love of others, and ultimately love and discipleship to God.

Thank you for this essay. I agree with you completely – God does not want us bashing each other, particularly over sex. Sex comes from God and is to be for our own good. We have to provide the boundaries, common sense, etc. It is a sacred, intimate part of a relationship. Not to be messed with.

thanks,

Darcy

Rob, are you serious? “Holiness has to come first?” Are you familiar with the Bible AT ALL? How about “For by grace are you saved, through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God?” How could you possibly be “holy” before you're even attempting to follow Christ?

I think your problem (and several others who've commented) is that, let's see… how'd you put it… oh yeah, you're “fighting against what God has told you is wrong.” Where do you see that in the life of Jesus? Fighting against people? Sinners LOVED being around Jesus, it was the religious people that hated him… Maybe because they were “fighting against” the people Jesus hung out with.

The Bible tells us that it is God's kindness that leads us to repentance. I don't see or hear much “kindness” from the “Christians” who are so vocal about this issue that they are “fighting against.”

When did the church start thinking it was our job to force Christianity on people? Oh, wait… I guess it was the crusades… when the church decided to kill anyone who didn't believe like them. Yeah, that's a great idea! Why don't we just kill all the homosexuals, Rob? I bet they'll repent at the edge of a knife to their throat! Yeah, that's it! Let's force our beliefs on them! Make them repent! Let's fight against the homosexuals!

Give. Me. A. Break.

I agree. The church has reduced complex beliefs to banner lines and catch phrases. We've “Twitterized” the gospel, and I just don't think you can reduce the gospel to 140 characters. Now we're known for our “sound bites” instead of being known as a “city of refuge.”

I disagree with you Jordan in that, there are general foundational things that need to be black and white on. And that does not mean we cannot be loving or caring or even empathetic on these issues. That's why the scripture says TRUTH and GRACE came by Jesus. one without the other is a slippery and dangerous ground and we are actually hurting the people around us.

That being said, as the church we have held to black and white standards in areas that we don't need to. And that has revealed hatred instead of Christ-like character.

wow! thats a powerful statement…thanks for sharing that Lex…

im going to have to steal that brandon heath line! love it!

[...] amongst Christians. Mike Foster also has a very insightful observation on the Prop 8 situation and the lack of grace being shown from both sides.How are Christians supposed to relate to the ten commandments? John Piper gives his answer in the [...]

“But no matter how far we go towards Christ, we will always have a bit of our sin nature left in us, itching at our thoughts and our hearts. It is this sin nature that drives our self-righteousness and our misguided political arguments and accusations.”
WOW! AWESOME! I see Christ's love coloring every word you wrote, adding to the splendor our God has created for us!

After 10 years of marriage, I divorced my abusive husband. Whose sin was greater: his or mine. I am remarried to a wonderful, Christian husband who was also divorced. After 15 year of marriage are we still living in sin because we were married to other people? Would repentence include turning from our marriage? or would it be to place our union in God's hands? The key is that judgement is not ours, it is God's. Jesus tells us that His only commandment is to Love our God and eachother. That is why we are Christans, so we can love. Judgement is way too big of a job for us sinners.

I have great respect for Mike and all POTSC. So, with respect (and grace and love–which I hope comes through) I continue to respectfully disagree.

Because, no, black and white thinking doesn't necessarily reduces things to the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions. OVER-SIMPLIFYING reduces things to the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions.

Really, saying that we should avoid black and white thinking (or that it is deadly) is a “black and white” statement. It's saying we shouldn't do something (It's saying we should not think in black and white terms.)

Black and white deals in absolutes (yes or no, right or wrong). Absolutes aren't necessarily simple–particularly when they exist together in the same situation.

If you take the time to break down complex situations you'll find they are made up of a lot of issues–and some of them are black and white.

If you said there are times when thinking in black and white terms are not appropriate, I might agree. If you said black and white thinking without grace can be deadly, then I might agree. But I don't agree with the sweeping statement that black and white thinking is deadly. The statement in itself is divisive. Some things are black and white. Some things aren't that's life. That's complicated.

And to be clear–I didn't say there is ONLY a right way and a wrong way to respond to someone. I said we either handle it right or we handle it wrong. There can be multiple right ways–a hand on the shoulder, kind words, just being there–there may be 1,000 or more right responses to any one situation. And there are probably just as many wrong responses to the same situation. But in the end you either get it right or you get it wrong.

If you're a little wrong–you're still wrong.

If you said the wrong thing with the right intentions, well–you got it wrong (But hopefully your good intentions and/or relationship will get you another chance to get it right with the same person later when you say something like “Wow, I'm sorry–that was the wrong thing to say…”). If you said the right thing with the wrong heart, you got it wrong. The person you said it to may not know, but you do and God does.

Only Jesus got it right every single time. We're not expected to get it right all the time. That's why we all need grace all the time. I get it wrong most of the time. That's why I need grace. (When I start THINKING I'm getting it right all the time, that's when I'm in trouble.)

I also didn't say that EVERYTHING is a black and white issue. Just that there are black and white issues. There are things that are either right or wrong. And that's not something to be afraid of. But that that doesn't give us a license to be jerks about it. If we are jerks about it, then we are in the wrong. We need to respond with grace and love.

Jordan, Paul told the Romans (and ultimately us) to stop fighting over things that don't matter (Rom 14:17-19). Things either matter or they don't. That's an absolute, a black and white issue–per Paul. He didn't mean nothing matters, or we should never disagree, or that there are no absolutes. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, he says those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, thieves, greedy people drunkards, abuser and swindlers will not have a share in the Kingdom of God. (I point this out, only to demonstrate that he did see some things as black and white issues–not to attack any person or group).

And Jesus does model grace and love, but He also talked about and demanded absolutes: Follow Me or don't. (John 2:43). Follow Me and leave your family. Don't look back (Luke 9:57-62 and Matthew 8:18-22). There is only one way to Heaven (Matthew 7:13). You must be born again (John 3:7). If you reject Me (Jesus) you reject God. (Luke 10:16). Don't Lust (Matthew 5:27-30). Don't hate your enemy–love them (Matthew 5:43-48). Don't judge others (Matthew 7:1). Evil thoughts–murder, adultery, all other sexual immorality, theft, lying and slander–defile you. (Matthew 15:19-20).

Those are pretty black and white. But you are right that Jesus also models grace and love throughout the Gospels. In Matthew 22: 37-40 Jesus said, “'You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment, and a second is equally important: “Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

So, black and white thinking is scriptural. But love and grace (black and white issues in themselves) are also scriptural. And we should include all of these in our decision making.

And to clarify for anyone not familiar with scripture who is reading this–Jesus did not show the Pharisees respect. In John 8, after he forgave the adulterous woman he stood in the temple and told the religious leaders that they were from below and that they would die in their sins. In John 9:41 He told them they were guilty. In Matthew 12:38-39, when the religious leaders and Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign to show He was from God, Jesus said only and evil, faithless generation would ask for a sign. In Matthew 15 Jesus asked the Pharisees why they, by their traditions violate the direct commandments of God. Then he called them them hypocrites, directly to their faces.

All this to say: I think we all (myself included) need to put more thought and research into what we say before making sweeping statements. Yes, they're provocative, they draw attention and they will sell books, but stop and think–is that really what you believe? Is it scriptural? Or is it what I think should be the truth?

A person can be wrong and I can love them and treat them kindly, regardless.

Just my point of view–maybe I'm wrong.

YEAH BUT WHAT BOUT DEM HOMOS GEY ALL GOIN TA HELL IN DA HAM BASKET YA HURRD? DEM FAGGOTS IS FUCKIN EACH OTHA DEN GIVIN MY DAUGHTA DA AIDS VIRUS AND NOW SHE FUCKED DA DOG AND HE PISSIN ALL OVA HIMSELF. FUCK DEM GAY FAGS MAN.

Binstoat, I think your judgments are clearly flawed, and frankly you sound like an uneducated retard. If you were to listen to the lord and his teachings you would know that what you're saying is completely wrong and offensive. What we should do is preform a mass castration of the homosexual, kind of like the holocaust except with more torture and more jews, heck, why limit it to the gays and jews, fuck black people too, and native americans, we can lure them in with some beads or something, maybe a feather or two. Anyways, like I was saying, we get a bunch of meat cleavers, and start hacking off dicks left and right, and if a woman tries to stop us we put her in her place just like jesus would and nail her to some wood, with our dicks, which we would be able to keep, because we love jesus, our lord, savior, light, praise, amen.

[...] Mike Foster [...]

Binstoat, I think your judgments are clearly flawed, and frankly you sound like an uneducated retard. If you were to listen to the lord and his teachings you would know that what you’re saying is completely wrong and offensive. What we should do is preform a mass castration of the homosexual, kind of like the holocaust except with more torture and more jews, heck, why limit it to the gays and jews, fuck black people too, and native americans, we can lure them in with some beads or something, maybe a feather or two. Anyways, like I was saying, we get a bunch of meat cleavers, and start hacking off dicks left and right, and if a woman tries to stop us we put her in her place just like jesus would and nail her to some wood, with our dicks, which we would be able to keep, because we love jesus, our lord, savior, light, praise, amen.

[...] [...]